The Judas Factor - Revision history

Mxmsj: /* The Scriptures predict scandals */

2024-03-29T07:48:04Z

The Scriptures predict scandals

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	:; [http://biblehub.com/drb/matthew/18.htm Mt 18:7]		:; [http://biblehub.com/drb/matthew/18.htm Mt 18:7]

	:: Î¿Ï…Î±Î¹ Ï„Ï‰ ÎºÎ¿ÏƒÎ¼Ï‰ Î±Ï€Î¿ Ï„Ï‰Î½ '''ÏƒÎºÎ±Î½Î´Î±Î»Ï‰Î½''' Î±Î½Î±Î³ÎºÎ· Î³Î±Ï ÎµÏƒÏ„Î¹Î½ ÎµÎ»Î¸ÎµÎ¹Î½ Ï„Î± '''ÏƒÎºÎ±Î½Î´Î±Î»Î±''' Ï€Î»Î·Î½ Î¿Ï…Î±Î¹ Ï„Ï‰ Î±Î½Î¸ÏÏ‰Ï€Ï‰ ÎµÎºÎµÎ¹Î½Ï‰ Î´Î¹ Î¿Ï… Ï„Î¿ ÏƒÎºÎ±Î½Î´Î±Î»Î¿Î½ ÎµÏÏ‡ÎµÏ„Î±Î¹		:: Οὐαὶ τῷ κόσμῳ ἀπὸ τῶν σκανδάλων ἀνάγκη γὰρ ἐλθεῖν τὰ σκάνδαλα πλὴν οὐαὶ τῷ ἀνθρώπῳ δι’ οὗ τὸ σκάνδαλον ἔρχεται

	:: Woe to the world because of scandals. For it must needs be that scandals come: but nevertheless woe to that man by whom the scandal ~~cometh~~.		:: Woe to the world because of scandals. For it must needs be that scandals come: but nevertheless woe to that man by whom the scandal comes.

	:; [http://usccb.org/bible/acts/20:29 Acts 20:29]		:; [http://usccb.org/bible/acts/20:29 Acts 20:29]

Mxmsj: /* Leaving the Master because of His Disciples */

2024-03-29T07:39:27Z

Leaving the Master because of His Disciples

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	:; [http://study.interlinearbible.org/luke/17.htm Luke 17:1]		:; [http://study.interlinearbible.org/luke/17.htm Luke 17:1]

	:: ~~á¼€Î½ÎÎ½Î´ÎµÎºÏ„Î¿Î½ á¼ÏƒÏ„Î¹Î½ Ï„Î¿á¿¦ Ï„á½°~~ '''~~ÏƒÎºÎ¬Î½Î´Î±Î»Î±~~''' ~~Î¼á½´ á¼Î»Î¸Îµá¿–Î½, Ï€Î»á½´Î½ Î¿á½Î±á½¶ Î´Î¹’ Î¿á½— á¼”ÏÏ‡ÎµÏ„Î±Î¹~~		:: Ἀνένδεκτόν ἐστιν τοῦ τὰ '''σκάνδαλα''' μὴ ἐλθεῖν πλὴν οὐαὶ δι’ οὗ ἔρχεται

	:: It is impossible that '''scandals''' not come, but woe to him through whom they come!		:: It is impossible that '''scandals''' not come, but woe to him through whom they come!

Mxmsj: /* Could Judas be saved? */

2024-03-29T07:36:37Z

Could Judas be saved?

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	Praying that God will have mercy on Judas and on all notorious sinners (Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, serial killers, child-abusing priests, misguided bishops, proponents of abortion, etc.) is the right thing to do ''for the salvation of my soul.'' [[Forgiveness prayer\|Forgiveness brings healing to those who forgive.]] It fulfills Jesus' command to pray for our enemies. We can't tell now what effect, if any, our prayers have on others who are in need of Jesus' mercy, but we may be absolutely confident that they have a good effect on us.		Praying that God will have mercy on Judas and on all notorious sinners (Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, serial killers, child-abusing priests, misguided bishops, proponents of abortion, etc.) is the right thing to do ''for the salvation of my soul.'' [[Forgiveness prayer\|Forgiveness brings healing to those who forgive.]] It fulfills Jesus' command to pray for our enemies. We can't tell now what effect, if any, our prayers have on others who are in need of Jesus' mercy, but we may be absolutely confident that they have a good effect on us.

			:; Jimmy Akin, [https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/hope-for-judas "Hope for Judas?"]

			:: Now, here’s the thing: Matthew’s Gospel—the same one where Jesus warns of Judas’s fate—goes on to say this:

			:::: When Judas, his betrayer, saw that he was condemned, he repented and brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders, saying, “I have sinned in betraying innocent blood” (Matt. 27:3-4).

			:: Matthew says that Judas repented! He recognized that he had sinned and that Jesus was innocent, and he sought to return the money. When the priests refused to take it back, he threw it into the Temple (27:5a) so that he would not profit from his sin. That sounds like a sincere repentance!

	== References ==		== References ==

Mxmsj: Text replacement - "--" to " — "

2022-12-10T10:18:08Z

Text replacement - "--" to " — "

Mxmsj: Text replacement - "â€™" to "’"

2022-12-10T09:21:14Z

Text replacement - "â€™" to "’"

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:21, 10 December 2022
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	:; [http://usccb.org/bible/matthew/7:15 Matthew 7:15]		:; [http://usccb.org/bible/matthew/7:15 Matthew 7:15]

	:: "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in ~~sheepâ€™s~~ clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves."		:: "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves."

	:; [http://biblehub.com/drb/matthew/18.htm Mt 18:7]		:; [http://biblehub.com/drb/matthew/18.htm Mt 18:7]
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	:; [http://study.interlinearbible.org/luke/17.htm Luke 17:1]		:; [http://study.interlinearbible.org/luke/17.htm Luke 17:1]

	:: á¼€Î½ÎÎ½Î´ÎµÎºÏ„Î¿Î½ á¼ÏƒÏ„Î¹Î½ Ï„Î¿á¿¦ Ï„á½° '''ÏƒÎºÎ¬Î½Î´Î±Î»Î±''' Î¼á½´ á¼Î»Î¸Îµá¿–Î½, Ï€Î»á½´Î½ Î¿á½Î±á½¶ ~~Î´Î¹â€™~~ Î¿á½— á¼”ÏÏ‡ÎµÏ„Î±Î¹		:: á¼€Î½ÎÎ½Î´ÎµÎºÏ„Î¿Î½ á¼ÏƒÏ„Î¹Î½ Ï„Î¿á¿¦ Ï„á½° '''ÏƒÎºÎ¬Î½Î´Î±Î»Î±''' Î¼á½´ á¼Î»Î¸Îµá¿–Î½, Ï€Î»á½´Î½ Î¿á½Î±á½¶ Î´Î¹’ Î¿á½— á¼”ÏÏ‡ÎµÏ„Î±Î¹

	:: It is impossible that '''scandals''' not come, but woe to him through whom they come!		:: It is impossible that '''scandals''' not come, but woe to him through whom they come!

Mxmsj: /* The Liturgy teaches us that priests sin */

2019-01-11T06:56:11Z

The Liturgy teaches us that priests sin

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	There have been [[antichrists\|many antichrists besides Judas]] from the earliest days of the Church. This is a thorn in our side that God apparently will not remove until the world is ended and remade [http://usccb.org/bible/2cor/12:7 2 Cor 12:7-10].		There have been [[antichrists\|many antichrists besides Judas]] from the earliest days of the Church. This is a thorn in our side that God apparently will not remove until the world is ended and remade [http://usccb.org/bible/2cor/12:7 2 Cor 12:7-10].

	== The Liturgy ~~teaches us~~ that priests sin ==		== The Liturgy acknowledges that priests sin ==

	The sins of the ordained should come as no surprise to people who know the text of the Mass. In addition to praying with the whole congregation for the forgiveness of sins, there are prayers said quietly by the priest alone, reminding him of his need for repentance and forgiveness:		The sins of the ordained should come as no surprise to people who know the text of the Mass. In addition to praying with the whole congregation for the forgiveness of sins, there are prayers said quietly by the priest alone, reminding him of his need for repentance and forgiveness:

Mxmsj at 18:03, 21 December 2017

2017-12-21T18:03:05Z

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	'''Married Catholics sin.''' They shouldn't, but they do.		'''Married Catholics sin.''' They shouldn't, but they do.

	::; The bottom line:		::; The bottom line<nowiki>:</nowiki>

	:::: '''''Don't leave Jesus because of Judas!'''''		:::: '''''Don't leave Jesus because of Judas!'''''

Mxmsj at 18:02, 21 December 2017

2017-12-21T18:02:45Z

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	'''Married Catholics sin.''' They shouldn't, but they do.		'''Married Catholics sin.''' They shouldn't, but they do.

	:: The bottom line: ~~'''''Don't leave Jesus because of Judas!'''''~~		::; The bottom line:

	~~<div align="center">~~'''''Our faith is in Jesus, not in priests!'''''~~</div>~~		:::: '''''Don't leave Jesus because of Judas!'''''
			:::: '''''Our faith is in Jesus, not in priests!'''''

	== The Scriptures predict scandals ==		== The Scriptures predict scandals ==

Mxmsj at 18:01, 21 December 2017

2017-12-21T18:01:14Z

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	:: The bottom line: '''''Don't leave Jesus because of Judas!'''''		:: The bottom line: '''''Don't leave Jesus because of Judas!'''''

			<div align="center">'''''Our faith is in Jesus, not in priests!'''''</div>

	== The Scriptures predict scandals ==		== The Scriptures predict scandals ==

Mxmsj at 11:39, 11 March 2014

2014-03-11T11:39:30Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:39, 11 March 2014
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	The infallibility of the Church and consequently that of the pope is due to the infallible power of ''God'' to protect what He has revealed. The doctrine that God will not permit the Church or the pope to officially teach what is false is a doctrine about the goodness and power of God, not about the goodness or power of the members of the Church or of the papacy.		The infallibility of the Church and consequently that of the pope is due to the infallible power of ''God'' to protect what He has revealed. The doctrine that God will not permit the Church or the pope to officially teach what is false is a doctrine about the goodness and power of God, not about the goodness or power of the members of the Church or of the papacy.

			:: I was not baptized into the Pope, I do not receive the curia sacramentally. To leave because of them--even if they were worse than their worst enemy thinks them--would be to give them an importance that is not theirs, and to have missed the meaning of my membership of the Church and Christ's headship of it and of me.<ref>Frank Sheed, ''The Church and I.''</ref>

	The Catholic Church does not now teach and never has taught that popes, bishops, priests or deacons are ''sinless'' (impeccable) or ''wise'' ([[virtue\|prudent]]). There are, unfortunately, all too many proofs from the past and the present that the sacrament of Holy Orders does not make men holy or smart automatically. Ordained men have committed every form of sin imaginable, including apostasy,<ref>'''Apostasy''': abandoning the faith entirely.</ref> heresy,<ref>'''[[Heresy]]''': keeping part of the tradition and rejecting the rest.</ref> adultery, rape, incest, [[The sins of priests\|pedophilia,]] pederasty, sodomy, murder, theft, lying, blasphemy, and the construction of Churchill Tower at Canisius College in Buffalo, N.Y.		The Catholic Church does not now teach and never has taught that popes, bishops, priests or deacons are ''sinless'' (impeccable) or ''wise'' ([[virtue\|prudent]]). There are, unfortunately, all too many proofs from the past and the present that the sacrament of Holy Orders does not make men holy or smart automatically. Ordained men have committed every form of sin imaginable, including apostasy,<ref>'''Apostasy''': abandoning the faith entirely.</ref> heresy,<ref>'''[[Heresy]]''': keeping part of the tradition and rejecting the rest.</ref> adultery, rape, incest, [[The sins of priests\|pedophilia,]] pederasty, sodomy, murder, theft, lying, blasphemy, and the construction of Churchill Tower at Canisius College in Buffalo, N.Y.

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:18, 10 December 2022
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	The infallibility of the Church and consequently that of the pope is due to the infallible power of ''God'' to protect what He has revealed. The doctrine that God will not permit the Church or the pope to officially teach what is false is a doctrine about the goodness and power of God, not about the goodness or power of the members of the Church or of the papacy.		The infallibility of the Church and consequently that of the pope is due to the infallible power of ''God'' to protect what He has revealed. The doctrine that God will not permit the Church or the pope to officially teach what is false is a doctrine about the goodness and power of God, not about the goodness or power of the members of the Church or of the papacy.

	:: I was not baptized into the Pope, I do not receive the curia sacramentally. To leave because of them--even if they were worse than their worst enemy thinks them--would be to give them an importance that is not theirs, and to have missed the meaning of my membership of the Church and Christ's headship of it and of me.<ref>Frank Sheed, ''The Church and I.''</ref>		:: I was not baptized into the Pope, I do not receive the curia sacramentally. To leave because of them — even if they were worse than their worst enemy thinks them — would be to give them an importance that is not theirs, and to have missed the meaning of my membership of the Church and Christ's headship of it and of me.<ref>Frank Sheed, ''The Church and I.''</ref>

	The Catholic Church does not now teach and never has taught that popes, bishops, priests or deacons are ''sinless'' (impeccable) or ''wise'' ([[virtue\|prudent]]). There are, unfortunately, all too many proofs from the past and the present that the sacrament of Holy Orders does not make men holy or smart automatically. Ordained men have committed every form of sin imaginable, including apostasy,<ref>'''Apostasy''': abandoning the faith entirely.</ref> heresy,<ref>'''[[Heresy]]''': keeping part of the tradition and rejecting the rest.</ref> adultery, rape, incest, [[The sins of priests\|pedophilia,]] pederasty, sodomy, murder, theft, lying, blasphemy, and the construction of Churchill Tower at Canisius College in Buffalo, N.Y.		The Catholic Church does not now teach and never has taught that popes, bishops, priests or deacons are ''sinless'' (impeccable) or ''wise'' ([[virtue\|prudent]]). There are, unfortunately, all too many proofs from the past and the present that the sacrament of Holy Orders does not make men holy or smart automatically. Ordained men have committed every form of sin imaginable, including apostasy,<ref>'''Apostasy''': abandoning the faith entirely.</ref> heresy,<ref>'''[[Heresy]]''': keeping part of the tradition and rejecting the rest.</ref> adultery, rape, incest, [[The sins of priests\|pedophilia,]] pederasty, sodomy, murder, theft, lying, blasphemy, and the construction of Churchill Tower at Canisius College in Buffalo, N.Y.
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	and never let me be parted from you."		and never let me be parted from you."

	<div align="center">-- or --</div>		<div align="center"> — or — </div>

	"May the receiving of your Body and Blood,<br>		"May the receiving of your Body and Blood,<br>
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	The synoptic gospels all portray Judas as being present for the first Eucharist (Matthew 26, Mark 14, and Luke 22). In Matthew and Mark, the prophecy that Jesus would be betrayed by an apostle precedes the [[Institution Narratives\|Institution Narrative,]] and there is no account of Judas leaving the table. We may then infer that Judas was present and received Communion.		The synoptic gospels all portray Judas as being present for the first Eucharist (Matthew 26, Mark 14, and Luke 22). In Matthew and Mark, the prophecy that Jesus would be betrayed by an apostle precedes the [[Institution Narratives\|Institution Narrative,]] and there is no account of Judas leaving the table. We may then infer that Judas was present and received Communion.

	There is no account of a Communion service in John's account of the Last Supper (John 13). Instead, Jesus washes the feet of the disciples--including Judas. After Jesus identified Judas as the one who would betray Him (13:26), Judas leaves the room (13:30).		There is no account of a Communion service in John's account of the Last Supper (John 13). Instead, Jesus washes the feet of the disciples — including Judas. After Jesus identified Judas as the one who would betray Him (13:26), Judas leaves the room (13:30).

	== Jesus knew what Judas would do ==		== Jesus knew what Judas would do ==
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	The betrayal of Jesus by Judas is a specific example of the mystery of [[divine foreknowledge and human freedom]].		The betrayal of Jesus by Judas is a specific example of the mystery of [[divine foreknowledge and human freedom]].

	All four gospels--John perhaps most clearly of the four--assert that Jesus knew Judas would betray Him. This divine foreknowledge may make it seem as though Judas had no choice in the matter or as though God had created Judas only to use him as a tool to set up the crucifixion of Jesus.		All four gospels — John perhaps most clearly of the four — assert that Jesus knew Judas would betray Him. This divine foreknowledge may make it seem as though Judas had no choice in the matter or as though God had created Judas only to use him as a tool to set up the crucifixion of Jesus.

	We live in time. For us temporal creatures, there is the past, the present, and the future. We are like God, but God is not like us. God is eternal--outside of time. He gives us choices and sees what we choose when ''we'' choose it. God saw Judas freely choosing to betray Jesus and accepted Judas' God-given freedom to sin, just as God sees all of our sins and accepts all of the consequences of having decided to give us free will. If Judas had remained faithful to Jesus, those who hated Jesus would have found some other way to have Him arrested and executed. There was no necessity for Judas to do what he did, and no virtue or merit in his decision.		We live in time. For us temporal creatures, there is the past, the present, and the future. We are like God, but God is not like us. God is eternal — outside of time. He gives us choices and sees what we choose when ''we'' choose it. God saw Judas freely choosing to betray Jesus and accepted Judas' God-given freedom to sin, just as God sees all of our sins and accepts all of the consequences of having decided to give us free will. If Judas had remained faithful to Jesus, those who hated Jesus would have found some other way to have Him arrested and executed. There was no necessity for Judas to do what he did, and no virtue or merit in his decision.

	Jesus knew that Judas would betray Him, but He also knew that this was Judas' choice, not His. Judas would not have had the free choice to betray Jesus if Jesus had not called him to be an apostle. Jesus chose Judas as an apostle because he had all of the gifts necessary to be an apostle, but Jesus allowed Judas to turn against Him because He wants His disciples to obey out of love, not out of compulsion.		Jesus knew that Judas would betray Him, but He also knew that this was Judas' choice, not His. Judas would not have had the free choice to betray Jesus if Jesus had not called him to be an apostle. Jesus chose Judas as an apostle because he had all of the gifts necessary to be an apostle, but Jesus allowed Judas to turn against Him because He wants His disciples to obey out of love, not out of compulsion.
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	'''Tradition is fault-tolerant.''' I don't mean that we should tolerate sin in our own lives or in the lives of the ordained. But neither Judas nor the multitudes who have committed the sin of Judas have destroyed the power of the [[remnant\|remainder]] to transmit the knowledge of salvation fully and faithfully.		'''Tradition is fault-tolerant.''' I don't mean that we should tolerate sin in our own lives or in the lives of the ordained. But neither Judas nor the multitudes who have committed the sin of Judas have destroyed the power of the [[remnant\|remainder]] to transmit the knowledge of salvation fully and faithfully.

	If Tradition were like a chain, breaking one single link would break the whole chain. But it is much more like a rope, in which thousands of strands are woven together; though a few strands may snap, the rest are able to take up the the load. The message of Jesus' saving death and resurrection is carried now by millions of messengers; great harm can be done locally by the sins of messengers who betray the message--great harm to the sinners, their victims, and their neighbors--but the truth of the gospel is still carried to the ends of the earth by those who have not betrayed Jesus or who, like Peter, have repented and been forgiven for denying Him.		If Tradition were like a chain, breaking one single link would break the whole chain. But it is much more like a rope, in which thousands of strands are woven together; though a few strands may snap, the rest are able to take up the the load. The message of Jesus' saving death and resurrection is carried now by millions of messengers; great harm can be done locally by the sins of messengers who betray the message — great harm to the sinners, their victims, and their neighbors — but the truth of the gospel is still carried to the ends of the earth by those who have not betrayed Jesus or who, like Peter, have repented and been forgiven for denying Him.

	::If we are sure that popes, bishops, priests and deacons have sinned, we affirm in that very act of condemnation that we know what God has revealed through the Church.		::If we are sure that popes, bishops, priests and deacons have sinned, we affirm in that very act of condemnation that we know what God has revealed through the Church.
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	Many people in our culture have a strange affection for Judas (cf. ''Godspell,'' ''Jesus Christ Superstar''). They portray his act of betrayal as noble and worthy of praise, as if his treachery toward Jesus is the cause of our salvation instead of Jesus' willingness to lay down his life to save us. In their eyes, Judas was fated to betray Jesus, and so should be honored as a noble person who obeyed the will of God. Such people seem to think that because, in fact, the betrayal of Jesus by Judas led to our salvation, that is the only way the saving death of Jesus could have happened. Their argument seems to be that without the betrayal by Judas, Jesus would not have died on the Cross; without Jesus' death on the Cross, we would not be saved; therefore, we are indebted to Judas for our salvation.		Many people in our culture have a strange affection for Judas (cf. ''Godspell,'' ''Jesus Christ Superstar''). They portray his act of betrayal as noble and worthy of praise, as if his treachery toward Jesus is the cause of our salvation instead of Jesus' willingness to lay down his life to save us. In their eyes, Judas was fated to betray Jesus, and so should be honored as a noble person who obeyed the will of God. Such people seem to think that because, in fact, the betrayal of Jesus by Judas led to our salvation, that is the only way the saving death of Jesus could have happened. Their argument seems to be that without the betrayal by Judas, Jesus would not have died on the Cross; without Jesus' death on the Cross, we would not be saved; therefore, we are indebted to Judas for our salvation.

	Judas clearly miscalculated what he was doing--otherwise he would not have committed suicide, but would have lived on, happy and proud of what he had accomplished. The fact that Jesus allowed Judas to make bad choices is not an indication that Judas did what Jesus wanted him to do. God's knowledge of the choices we make does not diminish our freedom in making those choices. God, in His mercy, can bring good out of evil, but that does not mean that evil is good or that good is evil. We do not know what would have happened if Judas had remained faithful to Jesus, but we may suppose that Jesus' enemies would have found some other way to arrest and prosecute Him. We may be certain that Judas' actions were evil, even though God brought good out of the evil he did.		Judas clearly miscalculated what he was doing — otherwise he would not have committed suicide, but would have lived on, happy and proud of what he had accomplished. The fact that Jesus allowed Judas to make bad choices is not an indication that Judas did what Jesus wanted him to do. God's knowledge of the choices we make does not diminish our freedom in making those choices. God, in His mercy, can bring good out of evil, but that does not mean that evil is good or that good is evil. We do not know what would have happened if Judas had remained faithful to Jesus, but we may suppose that Jesus' enemies would have found some other way to arrest and prosecute Him. We may be certain that Judas' actions were evil, even though God brought good out of the evil he did.

	== Leaving the Master because of His Disciples ==		== Leaving the Master because of His Disciples ==