Trinity - Revision history

Mxmsj: Text replacement - "--" to " — "

2022-12-10T10:18:20Z

Text replacement - "--" to " — "

Mxmsj: /* All analogies fail */

2018-05-01T19:27:55Z

All analogies fail

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:27, 1 May 2018
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	Help a bit, block a bit.		Help a bit, block a bit.

			== 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0 ==

			Attributed to Aquinas:

			::- 5 notions
			::- 4 relations
			::- 3 persons
			::- 2 processions
			::- 1 God
			::- no proof


	[[Category:Trinity]]		[[Category:Trinity]]

Mxmsj: /* Three entities in God */

2018-04-27T23:11:51Z

Three entities in God

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:11, 28 April 2018
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	The Persons are distinct from each other in identity (each is His own "I") but are not separated in being. It is wrong to think of the Persons as three beings or three entities.		The Persons are distinct from each other in identity (each is His own "I") but are not separated in being. It is wrong to think of the Persons as three beings or three entities.

			AD: "We must not conceive of the Trinity as Siamese triplets."

	=== Three forms of God ===		=== Three forms of God ===

Mxmsj: /* Three in one */

2017-06-27T14:34:08Z

Three in one

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 This is the literal meaning of "Trinity."  "Tri" stands for "three" and "unity" stands for "one."  But to say "three in one" leaves undefined the way in which God is three (Persons) and the way in which God is one (being, entity, divinity, eternity, power, glory, etc.).
 "Three in one being" comes closer to the proper definition of the dogma, but it sounds as though it is "three beings in one being."  [http://www.3inone.com/ "3-in-One Oil"] is three oils mixed into one oil; a "three in one can opener" is three can openers in one can opener; a "three in one knife" is three knives in one knife.
 [[Category:Trinity]]

Mxmsj: /* Three in one */

2015-04-07T12:58:19Z

Three in one

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:58, 7 April 2015
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	This is the literal meaning of "Trinity." "Tri" stands for "three" and "unity" stands for "one." But to say "three in one" leaves undefined the way in which God is three (Persons) and the way in which God is one (being, entity, divinity, eternity, power, glory, etc.).		This is the literal meaning of "Trinity." "Tri" stands for "three" and "unity" stands for "one." But to say "three in one" leaves undefined the way in which God is three (Persons) and the way in which God is one (being, entity, divinity, eternity, power, glory, etc.).

	"Three in one being" comes closer to the proper definition of the dogma, but it sounds as though it is "three beings in one being." "~~Three~~ in ~~one oil~~" is three oils mixed into one oil; "three in one can opener" is three can openers in one can opener; "three in one knife" is three knives in one knife.		"Three in one being" comes closer to the proper definition of the dogma, but it sounds as though it is "three beings in one being." [http://www.3inone.com/ "3-in-One Oil"] is three oils mixed into one oil; a "three in one can opener" is three can openers in one can opener; a "three in one knife" is three knives in one knife.

	[[Category:Trinity]]		[[Category:Trinity]]

Mxmsj: /* The Son is the Word of the Father */

2012-10-08T16:15:31Z

The Son is the Word of the Father

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	The [[Holy Spirit\|Spirit]] is the Spirit of the Father ''and'' of the Son; He is the perfect expression of the love between the Father and the Son.		The [[Holy Spirit\|Spirit]] is the Spirit of the Father ''and'' of the Son; He is the perfect expression of the love between the Father and the Son.

	=== The Son is the Word of the Father ===		=== The Son is the Abiding Word of the Father ===

	The Word remains in the Father while, at the same time, going forth from Him into the world. This is how words work with our minds. When we say something, we are trying to express a meaning that is within us so that others can "see" what we mean. The word ~~goes~~ out of us, but the meaning of the word remains within us. All of our words are [[Sacraments\|sacramental:]] they are "outward signs of inward realities."		The Word remains in the Father while, at the same time, going forth from Him into the world. This is how words work with our minds. When we say something, we are trying to express a meaning that is within us so that others can "see" what we mean. The word comes out of us, but both the word and the meaning of the word remains within us. All of our words are [[Sacraments\|sacramental:]] they are "outward signs of inward realities."

			My e-mail system keeps a copy of everything I send to to people. The word remains with me even though I send it out to others. The Word abides in the Father even though He is sent into the world to reveal the Father.

	To speak a word, we must put our breath--our [[spirit]]--into it. So, too, the Father fills His Word with His Spirit.		To speak a word, we must put our breath--our [[spirit]]--into it. So, too, the Father fills His Word with His Spirit.

Mxmsj: /* Three Selfless Selves */

2012-10-06T16:25:56Z

Three Selfless Selves

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:25, 6 October 2012
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	The [[Holy Spirit\|Spirit]] is the Spirit of the Father ''and'' of the Son; He is the perfect expression of the love between the Father and the Son.		The [[Holy Spirit\|Spirit]] is the Spirit of the Father ''and'' of the Son; He is the perfect expression of the love between the Father and the Son.

			=== The Son is the Word of the Father ===

			The Word remains in the Father while, at the same time, going forth from Him into the world. This is how words work with our minds. When we say something, we are trying to express a meaning that is within us so that others can "see" what we mean. The word goes out of us, but the meaning of the word remains within us. All of our words are [[Sacraments\|sacramental:]] they are "outward signs of inward realities."

			To speak a word, we must put our breath--our [[spirit]]--into it. So, too, the Father fills His Word with His Spirit.

	== How not to speak of the Trinity ==		== How not to speak of the Trinity ==

Mxmsj: /* A proper definition */

2011-10-02T02:56:15Z

A proper definition

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:56, 2 October 2011
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	The three persons are all ''homoousios'' (Nicene Creed, Greek for "same substance") or ''consubstantial'' (Latin translation of homoousios, literally "substantial with [each other]").		The three persons are all ''homoousios'' (Nicene Creed, Greek for "same substance") or ''consubstantial'' (Latin translation of homoousios, literally "substantial with [each other]").

			=== Three Selfless Selves ===

			The Father pours Himself out completely and gives Himself without limit to the Son.

			The Son loves the Father without limit, receiving all from the Father and returning all to the Father.

			The [[Holy Spirit\|Spirit]] is the Spirit of the Father ''and'' of the Son; He is the perfect expression of the love between the Father and the Son.

	== How not to speak of the Trinity ==		== How not to speak of the Trinity ==

Mxmsj: /* Three parts of God */

2010-11-01T15:35:58Z

Three parts of God

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:35, 1 November 2010
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	The Father is not 1/3 of God; He ''is'' God. So, too, with the Son and the Spirit.		The Father is not 1/3 of God; He ''is'' God. So, too, with the Son and the Spirit.

			Bad images associated with this error: three-leaves on a clover plant, five fingers on one hand, three flavors in Neapolitan ice cream. A leaf is only part of a plant, a finger is only part of a hand, and each flavor of ice cream is only part of the Neapolitan mix, but each Person of the Trinity is wholly and completely God.

	=== Three entities in God ===		=== Three entities in God ===

Mxmsj: /* How not to speak of the Trinity */

2010-11-01T12:55:21Z

How not to speak of the Trinity

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:55, 1 November 2010
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	== How not to speak of the Trinity ==		== How not to speak of the Trinity ==

			I am presenting a very short synopsis of the outcome of two thousand years of reflection on what Jesus revealed to His apostles.

	=== God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit ===		=== God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit ===
	I have no idea where this phrase comes from. It may be an evangelical formula. I never say anything like this in class, but I have seen it often enough on exams to suggest that it is a moderately popular way of approximating the doctrine of the Trinity.		I have no idea where this phrase comes from. It may be an evangelical formula. I never say anything like this in class, but I have seen it often enough on exams to suggest that it is a moderately popular way of approximating the doctrine of the Trinity.

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:18, 10 December 2022
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	Jesus is the Revealer of Himself as God, the Son, and of God, the Father, and God, the Holy Spirit.		Jesus is the Revealer of Himself as God, the Son, and of God, the Father, and God, the Holy Spirit.

	The [[Councils_of_the_Church#.5B.231.5D_325_AD_--_Nicaea\|Council of Nicea]] provided a definitive interpretation of the Sacred Scriptures against the interpretation given by the [[Arian Heresy\|Arians]]. The [[Athanasian Creed]] dates to that era and explores and explains the doctrine in detail.		The [[Councils_of_the_Church#.5B.231.5D_325_AD_ — _Nicaea\|Council of Nicea]] provided a definitive interpretation of the Sacred Scriptures against the interpretation given by the [[Arian Heresy\|Arians]]. The [[Athanasian Creed]] dates to that era and explores and explains the doctrine in detail.

	; Short definition		; Short definition
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	My e-mail system keeps a copy of everything I send to to people. The word remains with me even though I send it out to others. The Word abides in the Father even though He is sent into the world to reveal the Father.		My e-mail system keeps a copy of everything I send to to people. The word remains with me even though I send it out to others. The Word abides in the Father even though He is sent into the world to reveal the Father.

	To speak a word, we must put our breath--our [[spirit]]--into it. So, too, the Father fills His Word with His Spirit.		To speak a word, we must put our breath — our [[spirit]] — into it. So, too, the Father fills His Word with His Spirit.

	== How not to speak of the Trinity ==		== How not to speak of the Trinity ==
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	Each of the Persons is God, not just the First Person; to think otherwise is to fall into the [[Arian heresy]].		Each of the Persons is God, not just the First Person; to think otherwise is to fall into the [[Arian heresy]].

	The proper way to speak of the eternal and consubstantial Persons is "God, the Father, God, the Son, and God, the Holy Spirit." The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Spirit is God--each Person is one and the same God and possesses all of the attributes of God in the same measure as the other two Persons. They are equal in eternity, omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, glory, beauty, truth, goodness, justice, mercy, and every other divine perfection. They differ from each other only in Person. We tell the Persons apart this way:		The proper way to speak of the eternal and consubstantial Persons is "God, the Father, God, the Son, and God, the Holy Spirit." The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Spirit is God — each Person is one and the same God and possesses all of the attributes of God in the same measure as the other two Persons. They are equal in eternity, omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, glory, beauty, truth, goodness, justice, mercy, and every other divine perfection. They differ from each other only in Person. We tell the Persons apart this way:

	* the Father has no personal origin outside of Himself; he brings forth the Son and, [[Filioque\|with the Son,]] brings forth the Holy Spirit.		* the Father has no personal origin outside of Himself; he brings forth the Son and, [[Filioque\|with the Son,]] brings forth the Holy Spirit.
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	Diamonds, charcoal, graphite, soot, fullerenes (buckeyballs, buckytubes, etc.) are ''forms'' of carbon. There is only one material (carbon) that has different properties due to the different ''forms'' it can take. The properties of a diamond come not from carbon, in and of itself, but from the ''form of carbon'' that gives it its distinctive crystalline structure.		Diamonds, charcoal, graphite, soot, fullerenes (buckeyballs, buckytubes, etc.) are ''forms'' of carbon. There is only one material (carbon) that has different properties due to the different ''forms'' it can take. The properties of a diamond come not from carbon, in and of itself, but from the ''form of carbon'' that gives it its distinctive crystalline structure.

	A statue is a form of material--a form of marble, wood, ceramic, metal, or the like. "Three forms of a painting" implies three paintings; "three forms of carbon" implies three different substances; "three forms of life" implies three different species.		A statue is a form of material — a form of marble, wood, ceramic, metal, or the like. "Three forms of a painting" implies three paintings; "three forms of carbon" implies three different substances; "three forms of life" implies three different species.

	"God" is not a material that can take different "forms." It is entirely wrong to say that the Father is a "form of God." He ''is'' God. So, too, with the Son and the Spirit.		"God" is not a material that can take different "forms." It is entirely wrong to say that the Father is a "form of God." He ''is'' God. So, too, with the Son and the Spirit.
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	All of us are used to playing different roles. One man can have many different characteristics as a son, brother, uncle, cousin, father, or husband. There is only one person who plays many different roles.		All of us are used to playing different roles. One man can have many different characteristics as a son, brother, uncle, cousin, father, or husband. There is only one person who plays many different roles.

	The Father does not play the Son in some relationships and the Holy Spirit in others in the same way that we play child, sibling, parent, or spouse. The Son is a different Person from the Father; the Son is ''not'' the Father in disguise or in a different role; the Father is Himself and the Son is Himself and the Spirit is Himself--three distinct selves, three Persons, three who can say "I am," not one self, Person, or "I".		The Father does not play the Son in some relationships and the Holy Spirit in others in the same way that we play child, sibling, parent, or spouse. The Son is a different Person from the Father; the Son is ''not'' the Father in disguise or in a different role; the Father is Himself and the Son is Himself and the Spirit is Himself — three distinct selves, three Persons, three who can say "I am," not one self, Person, or "I".

	=== Three in one ===		=== Three in one ===